Christianity really is snake-bit
It seems crazy, unsympathetic, scurrilous Christians are everywhere these days. They’re not just picketing out of funerals in Kansas, they’re handing people snakes and insulting them when they get bitten. You heard me right. Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit’s true.
“As a woman bitten by a rattlesnake during a church service in London (Ky.) struggled to breathe, hospital employees made derogatory comments about her religious beliefs rather than providing proper care, contributing to her death, a lawsuit charges.”
This brings to mind a joke about Kentucky I heard recently, but that’s a matter for another time and place.
The woman’s family is suing the hospital because the nurses evidently made comments like (the following comments are complete figments of my imagination, but I’m declaring them accurate), “She clearly doesn’t really believe,” “At least she’s in good with the devil since she’s on her way to meet up with him” and “Snakes don’t like the taste of good Christian blood.” Personally, my blood tastes like ooey-gooey caramel.
Again, this is one of the dangers of religion. If you believe God is in control of everything, loves us all and ultimately favors those who place their faith in Him (not unusual beliefs within the Christian community), it’s not all that difficult to believe that God will protect true believers against snake bites in these situations. Then, it becomes a sort of test of faith. People like this woman who get bitten and appear to be dying are in that position because their faith wasn’t strong enough. There’s no accurate way to measure another person’s faith, so this is as legitimate a method as any.
When many Christians are encouraged to abandon science in some areas (evolution, the existence of immortal, watchful men in the sky), it’s not surprising they do it in others as well. In their mind, God supercedes science. He can do whatever he wants, and he wants to protect his followers from harm. Or so goes the thinking. And once they believe it, it becomes part of their “faith.” Once it becomes part of a “faith,” it becomes extremely difficult to break that wall. I’ve had Christians tell me it’s unfair for people outside the church to question actions of the church (Hi, Jerry!). This is an attitude that cuts across much of religion; it’s a bunker mentality that can insulate them from criticism and become a breeding ground for dangerous beliefs such as the ones of the people in this church and the hospital workers. They dismiss outsiders’ opinions and only consider the opinions of those who believe like they do. It’s a Christian thing, and nobody else understands.
I’ve been to some of these “services” when I was a lot younger and couldn’t avoid it. Besides handling snakes it was claimed that they also were drinking poison…well, that’s what they SAID.
Trial by ordeal probably wouldn’t be far out of line for some of these folks.
One such place we went there was Speaking In Tongues (considered a “gift of the spirit” (another stupid delusion)
and a sermon which inveighed against “the Flesh” and particularly dancing. Our group played, and, behold! People started dancing! I asked about this seeming contradiction and was scornfully informed that they weren’t dancing.
Huh?
Turns out that it becomes dancing (and you are therefore ‘lost’ no matter what) if you cross one leg in front of another. If you avoid that you’re ’safe’. Ah! Sweet logic!
Jeff,
Your statement, ‘It’s a Christian thing, and nobody else understands,’ reminds of statements that some Darwinists have made at my blog, ‘You just don’t understand evolution; it’s a science thing.’
I have not told you that you cannot criticize the things the church does as if to protect the church. My point about outsiders judging the church is precisely what it is: You are not members of the church so how can you possibly have any understanding of the theology that undergirds the church? By what standards will you judge? To what level of perfection shall the church rise to in the eyes of someone who is not a Christian, worse, not God? Do you honestly think that a not-Christian has the moral capacity to make such judgments?
The existence of the Church in this world is judgement against the world. It’s not the world that will judge the church–as if the church needs to live up to the standards the world establishes! That’s what I’m saying. So criticize away! By all means! But know that when it gets down to brass tacks the opinion of anyone outside the church, against the church, is meaningless to the only One who has a right to judge the Church–and does judge the church–viz., Jesus Christ the Righteous One. However, please understand that Scripturally speaking, when you level a judgement against the Church, you are leveling a judgment against the Christ whose Body it is. And I’m not sure that the world has any standing to judge Jesus Christ.
That’s all I’m saying.
jerry
ps–thanks for thinking of me while writing, I’m honored.
Satan took The Lord Jesus up to the pinnacle of the temple. Here the devil challanged Jesus to throw Himself off, reminding Him that God had given the angels charge over Him and that they would bear Him up “lest ye dash your foot against a stone.” (Luke 4:1-13) Jesus forcefully reminded the devil of the impropriety of tempting God and basically told him to get lost. In John Bunyan’s excellant alegory, PILGRIM’S PROGRESS, one of the characters was Presumption. Many people think they have faith when all they have is presumption. The two are not the same. Faith should inspire us to love our fellow man and try to releave his suffering and supply his needs. Atheism, on the other hand, causes people to have a bunker mentality that sterilizes the retarded so they can’t reproduce and consign people who pray to “immortal, watchful men in the sky” to looney bins or worse. How thankful I am that I’m not a mormon and believe in such a rediculous being. How thankful I am as well that such men of scientific repute such as Baruch Spinoza at least had a scientific grasp on the enormity of God. Yes, Spinoza was a pantheist but at least HE didn’t describe God as a man. RLJ
Jerry wrote: “when you level a judgement against the Church, you are leveling a judgment against the Christ whose Body it is. And I’m not sure that the world has any standing to judge Jesus Christ.”
This is the type of thinking I’m talking about.
It’s dangerous, and it’s one reason things like this happen.
A good case can be made for the dangerousness and intolerance of an atheistic mentality in governnment. Their morality is subjective based upon their own personal individual experience and bound to come into conflict with the moral views or standards of others. Since they have no Higher Being (derogatorily refered to as an immortal watchful man in the sky) to mediate or restrain their activities or judgements, a finite power will inevitably chosen to do so. There will be no One to appeal to for advocacey against their heavey handed actions. They will persecute and prosecute those they deem are inferior or out of step with their political or social agenda. Totalitarian tyranny will be the result. We have already seen its ugly face in the former Soviet Union, Uganda, Rwanda and other places. Also,Science is purportedly based on observation. We Christians tend to deny or abandon science when it involves itself in the metaphysical and becomes a substitute for religion. How could scientists possibly have observed either evolution or the big bang theory? The government controls the power, guns and prison system. By insisting on a false concept of the seperation of church and state, we deny any imput from Christianity into society. Concepts such as loving our fellow man, helping the poor and needy and defending the weak from harm or exploitation which are at the core of Christianity are prevented from being expressed or implemented. It is the government, especially as conceived by the intolerant humanist who is dangerous for they have the power to lock up and execute.
RLJ wrote: “A good case can be made for the dangerousness and intolerance of an atheistic mentality in government.”
That’s fine, RLJ. And I’m sure if that case can be made, you’ll be glad to make it. Beside the point, though.
Any entity that insulates itself from external (and, often, even internal) criticism is a dangerous one. Especially when criticisms are couched in the idea that “If you criticize our actions, you’re really criticizing the actions of your own Messiah,” as Jerry does in his comment above. That’s discouraging critical thinking by marginalizing the very critics who offer their thoughts by suggesting it’s Jesus they’re criticizing, not the church. What that does is give Christians an excuse to dismiss any critiques of what they do, and they’ll just keep on handling snakes and picketing outside soldiers’ funerals because anyone who tells them they shouldn’t is just a Jesus hater.
[...] Get Bit, Die. Big Surprise. Posted on November 12, 2007 by Cory Tucholski My good friend Jeff Haws, as well as Rev. Dan from OutChurched and VJack from Atheist Revolution have posted on this little [...]
“That’s discouraging critical thinking by marginalizing the very critics who offer their thoughts by suggesting it’s Jesus they’re criticizing, not the church. What that does is give Christians an excuse to dismiss any critiques of what they do, and they’ll just keep on handling snakes and picketing outside soldiers’ funerals because anyone who tells them they shouldn’t is just a Jesus hater.”
Much like the public educational system that has the right to exclussively teach the afrontary to intellegence known as evolution. You can’t even put a lable on the text book that mentions the existence of an alternative religious view or theory. They bitterly marginalize Christians by calling them members of the “flat earth” society and claiming they believe the world is only 6,000 years old. They throw Bibles in waste paper baskets when little girls bring them to class, and discourage critical thinking by accusing praying children and people of talking to “an invisible guy in the sky.”
“afrontary to intelligence”?
Sigh.
Sure, Richard. If that helps you understand what I’m saying, then go with it.
I love how you’re just trying to make some light-hearted jokes about this stuff from an Atheistic/Agnostic point of view, yet people still get pissed off about everything you’re saying.
And then try and convert all of us via comment.
Nice blog!
Paul-
I sincerely hope no one converts to anything because of what I say.
Thanks for the comment.
Oh, I might not have been specific enough. I meant, some hardcore christians feel the need to comment on your blog about their beliefs, with the intention that someone will read their comments and feel the need to “find Jesus.” Upon finding your blog, I’m sure some people feel the need to oppose you (which is good as long as it is healthy discussion, haha).
I was glad I found your blog. It’s nice to see someone who feels comfortable openly expressing their atheistic/agnostic/humanistic viewpoints, it has allowed me to contemplate my own agnosticism.
That’s cool, Paul. I’m glad you stopped by. Please, feel free to poke around and comment wherever you wish. I’ve explored all sorts of realms of atheism, christianity and the like around here. There have been some interesting conversations in the comments sections of my posts.
To start off, yes I am related to RLJ. However, I have not had his theological training. I am just a simple believer who was raised in a Christian home. I feel it is every Christians obligation to share The Word with anyone who is receptive to discussion. The poor example of Christians, which is purported by religous (sp)fanatics, is perfect fodder for anti-Christian fanatics who lump fanatics in with all Christians. Who is to say what is the proper way to exercise your faith. The bible says Christians are to come out of the world ( worldly endeavors). I feel a true Christian should love his fellow man and pray for their salvation but, not to drive it down their throats.Unlike many fanatics who do. The Lord knows His people and they here His call.I don’t feel the government should Christianity down peoples throats but, there are many absolutes which are observed by many different beliefs. There needs to be some basis for morality other wise humanistic behavior can be very cruel and lasciveous. Just take a look at alot of websites which hide in the obscurity of the4 internet. I feel adults can interact however with fellow consenting adults. However, without some moral basis, however it is based is necessary to prevent survival of the fittist or other jungle behavior. Especially the preying upon naive and inocent youths. thank you for presenting this site for discussion. God bless us all, Rick.